Sutters Fort Flag Raising

[AyatollahGondola]

The event would be a flag raising from within the walls of historic Sutters Fort, where the mexican flag currently flies. The fort allows for private functions after hours, with many restrictions and some costs and a couple other hoops to jump through, but I think I've got them figured out already.
The tour would be like this:
I'll scout around a find a local color guard who'd be interested in the actual flag raising. Hopefully a band from a high school or heaven forbid, a college. Then, we have a chosen person lead us, and the spectators in the pledge of allegiance. After that, a local scholar sings the national anthem for us. Next, we have a few dignitaries give a short meaningful speech on national boundaries and the fort's history being American, and Californian primarily, and that the mexican flag is not proper given that many Californian/American lives were lost in the mex/american war, etc, etc....
Then, at our invitation and selection, we have some oppositional members and some of their supporters debate for 30 minutes or so with our own appointed heads about the merits of returning the fort to the dominion of the US by placing the mex flag behind glass somewhere within the fort where it belongs instead of flying out front where the bear flag should be.
Then we conclude the evening with another local American idol wannabe singing the star spangled banner, after which the color guard plays taps and takes the flag down. The dignitaries in attendance, supposing we can get them that is, autograph the two flags, the bear flag and the US flag, which we later present to the parks department since it will be the first time either one has flown inside the fort for many, many years
I've been working this one subversively for more than a year now. I'm thinking we can do this in mid September, on a saturday evening. The fort closes around 5:00 pm, after which we could hold court for a few hours as a private function. Let's keep this under wraps for a couple weeks more as I take up the application process. It's ok to murmur it, but not a total broadcast for now.

[StokeyBob]

It's ok to murmur it, but not a total broadcast for now.

This sounds like a great fantasy!

I always sort of liked when a fantasy turns into a reality. This has the potential of being a good meeting of the minds.

I hope it's okay for us to fantasize with you on this one.

I think I need a new flag.

[StokeyBob]

Kit Carson was my Great Great Grandmothers sisters son. He is not a direct relation of mine but we have always been proud of him.

He had times when he fought with some from Mexico. He also had times when he worked together with them. The same can be said for his time spent with the Indians and the other groups of his time.

His first wife was called "Waa-nibe or "Singing Grass". His second was "Making Out Road". The third was Josefa Jamamillo.

More about his marriages can be found at this link:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...07/ai_n9452440

He was at the first raising of the Stars and Stripes with John C. Fremont. Well at least if the wasn't out horsing around or sleeping or something. (Edit: I could be sadly mistaken on this. I sort of remember reading of a flag raising when Sutter's fort was reached by Fremont. It may have been a Bear Flag Republic flag or I could be even further sadly mistaken.)

http://www.militarymuseum.org/Sutter.html

I'm a little worried that we may need to raise an American Flag over Sacramento before we once again raise one over Sutter's Fort and one over the Capital in Washington D. C. before the one in Sacramento.

Just when did the Mexican Flag once again start being flown over Sutter's Fort?


And the thing about my jokes is, they don't hurt anybody. You can take 'em or leave 'em - you can say they're funny or they're terrible or they're good, or whatever, but you can just pass 'em by. But with Congress, every time they make a joke, it's a law! And every time they make a law, it's a joke!

-Will Rogers

[StokeyBob]

I would think the military should be given the first opportunity at acting as color guard.

I'm not sure just what group or branch of the military should have first chance. Maybe a Base Commander would know.

[AyatollahGondola]

I would think the military should be given the first opportunity at acting as color guard.

I'm not sure just what group or branch of the military should have first chance. Maybe a Base Commander would know.

I'm currently drafting up a letter to send out to as many color guards as I can find in the general area. there was one Vietnam vet color guard unit within that group so far. If you have any nominations I'd be happy to include them

[AyatollahGondola]

Just when did the Mexican Flag once again start being flown over Sutter's Fort?

It's been a couple decades or more actually.

[StokeyBob]

That's a crying shame.

I remember pictures from a ceremony you attended a while back. I can't find the Save Our state thread on it.

This is going to require some thought.

We spent all of our time remembering the Alamo and now we need to reclaim Sutter's Fort.

[StokeyBob]

I'm currently drafting up a letter to send out to as many color guards as I can find in the general area. there was one Vietnam vet color guard unit within that group so far. If you have any nominations I'd be happy to include them

I wonder if the original American soldiers that took the fort have a battalion or troop that have survived through to today. The California National Guard may also be a good choice.

There is so much I have to study up on this subject. I'm sure others in the United States would like to hear an update of the fort.

P.S. I just found this:

http://www.militarymuseum.org/Sutter.html

"The 5th Infantry Regiment California Volunteers, was organized here on 8 October, 1861 and trained by Brevet Brigadier General George W. Bowie for duty in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas against the Confederate forces. Since this was the year of the great flood, the troops aided the flood-stricken capital. Company F (Sacramento Rangers) 2d Cavalry Regiment, California Volunteers, was organized in Sacramento 25 August 1861 and later served here. This company furnished a large number of officers for other units of the California Volunteers."

[Dawes]

Good plan.

The flag is considered a military symbol

I noticed that the other picture shows no US or Calif flag on the front pole....

[StokeyBob]

Good plan.

The flag is considered a military symbol

I noticed that the other picture shows no US or Calif flag on the front pole....

A volunteer Firemen / Police Officer and some of the rest of us were discussing the flag at work.

He mentioned that it may be a violation not have an America flag flying a little bit higher than the other one.

[AyatollahGondola]

Good plan.

The flag is considered a military symbol

I noticed that the other picture shows no US or Calif flag on the front pole....

Oddly enough, that was true then, as it also was yesterday at around 11:30 am when i was there to talk to the events coordinator. the reply this time was that they had the outer flagpole replaced recently, and the holes where the flag hooks to were placed to close together. This would supposedly scrunch the flag up as it flew. couldn't have that. I can see how not flying the flag at all would be much better then flying it a little less than perfectly

[StokeyBob]

Maybe we can fly this guy out.?

Check out the video of this flag removal.

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7156726

Another link. "Mexican Flag Cut Down"

http://www.wrcbtv.com/news/index.cfm?sid=34

One more just incase;

http://www.ksn.com/news/also/10205326.html


Seriously this guy could be our Color Guard!

[AyatollahGondola]

Yeah,

I don't think the effect would end up the same in this place though.
I'm still working on this by the way

[StokeyBob]

Yeah,

I don't think the effect would end up the same in this place though.
I'm still working on this by the way

Hopefully he wouldn't need his knife.

If you could arrange it to be done legally he would make a good color guard. Maybe wear his old uniform.

He definitely has the right stuff. You could see his true colors when he looked into the camera and started with his name.

[AyatollahGondola]

It is possible

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/artic...ate/state1.txt

Museum's Mexican flag hauled down


By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN/Associated Press

Tuesday, October 9, 2007 10:37 PM PDT



TUCSON - Mexico's flag, which has flown alongside an American flag for more than 50 years at the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum outside Tucson, has been hauled down after escalating complaints in the past year or so.

The two flags have been used to reflect the bi-national focus of the museum on the Sonoran Desert, which encompasses portions of both countries.

The desert takes in parts of southern Arizona and California as well as the Mexican states of Sonora, Baja California and Baja California Sur.

The museum's staff began noticing complaints probably about a year ago, spokesman Tim Vimmerstedt said.


‘‘A lot of it has to do with confusion as to why we were flying the Mexican flag, which has been flying since 1954,'' he said. The flag was flown ‘‘to speak to the binationality,'' Vimmerstedt said. ‘‘We probably could have done a better job with signage concerning that fact.''

Vimmerstedt said he believes increasing focus on the border issues is driving the complaints, although no one raised the issue of illegal immigration or immigration reform.

‘‘They mainly just questioned why we were doing this, this is United States soil,'' he said. Visitors - a few a week - were asking ‘‘why the Mexican flag was flying over a private nonprofit organization on United States soil.''

‘‘We decided we would be better able to better tell that linkage through a signage package, which will speak to the two nations and five states that it encompasses,'' Vimmerstedt said.

Arizona continues to be the focal point for illegal immigrant crossings along the entire length of the Mexican border. In addition, many Arizonans remain angry over the national debate on immigration reform earlier this year, which the U.S. Senate failed to resolve.

Others believe that comprehensive reform that includes a guest worker program is needed. Yet public sentiment apparently favors securing the borders from illegal entry of migrants and drugs, and sanctions on employers to assure their workers are in the country legally, before addressing the guest worker issue.

The museum is a zoo, natural history museum and botanical garden, with paths through 21 acres of desert, and animals kept in realistic natural landscapes.

The museum's board of trustees voted to lower the flag last month, he said. It came down Tuesday. Mexican consular officials were not notified.

Before the decision to take down the Mexican flag, the museum had mistakenly flown it at the same height as the U.S. flag, Vimmerstedt said.

Protocol calls for the U.S. flag to be flown above that of another country over private buildings, and the mistake was corrected, he said.

About 70 percent of the museum's visitors come from out-of-state.

He said he is hopeful the signage the museum is producing to explain the desert's two-country makeup will be posted within 30 days.

‘‘This isn't to say that we won't fly that flag again in the future,'' he said.