Minute Men Rally in Victorville, CA on 7/11/2009

[DerailAmnesty.com]

You can't have it both ways derail. Either they salvage or they don't, at any rate carrying on dishonest practices is never a good idea. I do agree that SOS is totaled.

I said, Sandi, that's what she and Jalira are attempting to do. I never stated I thought it was going to be successful. I hope they both prove me wrong. Each of these ladies is a very talented individual whom I have had the good fortune of getting to know since I got myself involved in all this border security activism craziness, so I'm simply vouching for them (for whatever value that may or may not have).

[cowboycode]

Since you say you were informed, you really need to get some better informants. There is so little about what you posted that is correct, thank god your not working for the CIA. Oh, but maybe you are and that's the problem.

Hi,
This needs to be dealt with here. I wasn't going to get into this but I just can't let it pass. I have let another of your snarky comments directed to me about what I know to be true in a post, go. And you now are still sniping at my comments. I did not respond in kind before this post. I have nicely asked for you to prove me wrong before, I hear nothing back from you. Either this is a adult discussion with mature people or are you going on to snipe at me for what I will say here ?
However, I must warn you: If you want to convince me of anything, you better be prepared to back up your claims with real evidence, or independant proof. I may also need first hand corroboration. Things have to add in my head before I let myself be taken in by some more silly forum sniping. I'm a quasi-critical-thinker.
Have a real nice day.

[kjl]

I was informed that JeanfromFilmore and Jalira are the only two people that (after many months of Chelene forum announcements/begging/coercing) took over her position as SOS Events Directors. Jalira was a member, was banned awhile ago & now back. (WHY?) And Jean is a member who doesn't have her own car to get to events. Funny bunch of weird Event Directors, if you ask me. But that's what passes for SOS members now, 'retreads' with delusions of grandeur with SOS Director's titiles. LOL.

Ask someone that knows them just how much of what you posted is true. You'll find out for yourself that most of it isn't. You miss read much of what you thought was fact.

[AyatollahGondola]

I'm a quasi-critical-thinker.
Have a real nice day.

A whaaaaat?

Look, let's at least confine the majority of discussions about intergroup problems to the other thread. This one is mainly about the protest the turned out fairly well in spite of all the hard feelings and disturbances between groups and individuals. A little deviation isn't a major problem, but this is leading us way astray of the main point of this thread

[sandinator]

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[sandinator]

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[cowboycode]

Ask someone that knows them just how much of what you posted is true. You'll find out for yourself that most of it isn't. You miss read much of what you thought was fact.

Another comment was adressed to me. At the risk of being seen as defensive, I wish to clear up this matter and give my proof about knowing something about these two ladys in question..
"We may disagree, but let's not be disagreeable."
Is that your proof, you heard something that someone heard something else from someone else ???
That's hearsay and gossip.
I would expect this from others on another unnamed forums, not here. That's not good enough for some here.
Reasoned argument -- none. Facts -- none. Debate -- none.

You just put down the guy you don't agree with. It also sounds like another forum somewhere else. Am I the only one put off by this behavior?
I gave you one 'pass' and let things slide your first potshot at me and you still went after me a second time.
I know the two ladys, one is a San Pedro lab tech has a boyfriends was another person that goes to the desert border alot and the other just graduated from CSUN and doen not own a car. I spent alot of time with each at events and talk to them.
Anything more info will be by Private Messages to inquiring minds.
I turned the 'other cheek' once already and now I suggest you do the same and let me alone on here.
Have a very nice day.

TOS rules...(3) Please do not use the forums to engage in a personal war with another registrant.

[AyatollahGondola]

I was informed that JeanfromFilmore and Jalira are the only two people that (after many months of Chelene forum announcements/begging/coercing) took over her position as SOS Events Directors. Jalira was a member, was banned awhile ago & now back. (WHY?) And Jean is a member who doesn't have her own car to get to events. Funny bunch of weird Event Directors, if you ask me. But that's what passes for SOS members now, 'retreads' with delusions of grandeur with SOS Director's titiles. LOL.

I don't know you, but it seems as though you started this bickering in this particular thread with the above comments. I've said this before, and I'll repeat it for good measure. The Save Our State's general membership are not all delusional retreads, nor is the organization itself a poisonous enterprise. As far as Jalira being banned previously, so what? Bannings were carried out by virtue of personal whim, and it just may have been she was in the wrong spot on a day when someone was feeling particularly vindictive or paranoid. Arizona Patriot was also on the personna-non-grata list for months prior to my ouster, but now he's back in the drivers seat there, so it's all a matter of who is delegating them the authority at the time. Some of them are good people and some are sh!theads. But just because there are a few sh!theads there doesn't mean everyone still in the membership or the management is one also. The biggest problem is the clique mentality that appears directed by a few people who end up dictating the rules that keep many of the other groups at each others throats for one reason or another. However, this particular rally has shown that we may have a chance at overcoming these obstacles.

[sandinator]

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[sandinator]

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[cowboycode]

Sandinator...sorry, no. I am not active elsewhere as here. I think that many in our movement are on the same page, unfortunately others are workng against us with similar subversive actions as you and I have pointed out as a wake-up call to others despite the snarky detractors. Some times many people recognize independantly what is the right thing to say or do over our movement's dire problems of correcting illegal immigration. I think it's just co-incidence of correct thinking.

[cowboycode]

I don't know you, but it seems as though you started this bickering in this particular thread with the above comments.

Good thoughts but let me correct the record....You are right, you don't know me, but since you don't, why dump this matter in my front yard with only comments to me? I didn't start this and was trying to nicely clear up the negative tone that was used against me twice before. If not addressed nicely, this leaves false impressions of people's credibilty when they are trying to fill out the information on important matters. I thought that is what discussion forums are trying to do.

This was started by another poster that I was responding to directly and pleasantly to correct this simple matter. THEY chose to start this with a snarky comment on the Nightingale for Gov thread directed at me. I can give you the post link, if necessary. I ignored it for the sake of the forum harmony here. They did not respond when politely asked for their evidence. Looks like a problem there on their part. They choose to not clear this matter up. But, they then took the second step and continued with another snarky comment on this unrelated MM event thread a directed at me again, at which time I decided to nicely handle this to clear matters. I was directly addressing them to understand matters. Now, you come in....It's not about or connected to you.

If you see this as 'bickering', I cannot agree and suggest that you talk to the 'bicker' starter that twice decided to take a negative tack on two thread's because I was making a factual point and defending myself from such groundless accusations. I then took time and effort to establish my factual proof of my personal knowledge of the two people being discussed. Self defense against such matters is a person's right especially since I did not sink to the bickering attackers negative tone or level and kept this friendly & informative. Maybe now, not so much. But that's to be expected since we are only hearing one side, when the other accuser's side remains silent. That sounds like the actions of people staffing another org out there, now doesn't it ? We are left with a questionable accusation from them. That doesn't inspire alot of credibility for their accusitory comments and is 180 degress off my honest fair actions, tone and responses on this matter of fact vs fiction.
'KJL' we're waiting.....(Any coincidence in their paraniod schizophenric 'facts' or the real truth on these subjects is purely accidental.)

If you wish more, contact me privately.

[AyatollahGondola]

Here's a summary on my thoughts about this event:

It was a successful one, where nobody was injured, killed, or arrested. The word got back out on the street again, and if anything has been missing for some time, that was it. This movement was once a growing enterprise with emails, events, and forums alive with activity and exchange. And then it went bust primarily due to intergroup rivalries initiated by those who felt the need for control. It also suffered more fractionalizing when some who felt entitled, started to speak for everyone. So now we have some fractured and splintered activists out there trying to breath life back into this thing, and get things moving again. There are reservations about who is behind it because that entity was one who felt entitled to speak for everyone before. You can still reject that act, and get on the street. You can attend those events and speak for yourself. You can promote the effort in your own words at these events. In fact, if you don't like someone else seeming like they are speaking for you, get out there and speak for yourself more often. The way I see it is that a little competition between groups in that regard will be a good thing, because it will then give the public more options and more exposure to the effort overall. What's the better plan for the movement....staying home and sending out attack mails to point out what you think are the flaws or wrongs of another group/person/leader, or getting out on the streets and one upping them with your own ideas/speeches/acts?

[cowboycode]

It seems that the only group consistantly still making notable progress is Jim GIlchrist's Minuteman Project. Others are still enjoying staying in the mud slinging enuendo business against the clear leader of the movement, Jim G. Their big loss. And those followers are still fighting old tired feuds and huge egos are stuck in activism of the 'glory days' of a few years ago. While the rest of us are pushing forward on the Internet with blogs and articles and participating in local community revolts and rallys.

[liberty belle]

Ask someone that knows them just how much of what you posted is true. You'll find out for yourself that most of it isn't. You miss read much of what you thought was fact.

This is Jean from Fillmore! I can tell from the writing style! Totally Jean posts. Come and deny it! HAHAHAHAHAahahah..

Oh, baby you ain't gonna hear a word ANYONE posts around here. You'll have to remove your lips from Chalene's butt first.

ooOOOOooo secret agent man, secret agent man. They're givin' you a number and takin' away your name.......